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[Jak]

I've only ever done CSS level 1 and am not nearly qualified enough to give an opinion one way or the other, but I understand that motorcycles have come a long way since Keith Code's early days and wonder if this has something to do with the different techniques for cornering now being adopted by racers. I presume Neil Hodgson leans more towards the Simon Crafar school of riding  (I've yet to read his book).

I wouldn't be happy braking deep into a bend, but that's more to do with skill levels than technique. I can understand reducing the amount of time spent leaned over in the corner as much as possible in order to get hard on the throttle again, but I cant equate this with an early roll in 

It seems to me that the CSS method of a quick, late corner entry will reduce the amount of time spent in the corner and enable the rider to get the bike upright and back on the throttle sooner. They do teach early throttle application, which obviously on a litre bike like the 10R needs a bit of care 

[robbosliding]

A bit more sauna chat. Sam Lowes telling me he brakes hard sometimes all the way around a corner, full on all fingers pulling on the lever BUT ONLY when the brake is applied before leaning over - once the suspension is consitently compressed there is less stress on the tyre through a corner than breaking mid corner - this obviously in the dry - and clearly skills and feel learnt crashing frequently at someone elses expense no doubt....As a point of fact CSS set the speed before entry, they don't preach braking through bends for any third party reading but they do teach how to change line mid corner. I doubt many people would go there and say they didn't learn anything. I am obviously won over 

[EXJ10R]

In response to EXJ10R I would say fair dincum but I don't agree with you. I haven't felt short changed at all from them (it still isn't cheap though granted!!!). I haven't felt cramped or neglected by instructors and I think they run the day very very well. As for highsiding they ask you to ride at 80% during training to absorb and put in place what they are asking you to do. I have had all sorts of advice offered to me by so called instructors at trackdays (when I have asked for it) but it is always piece meal or not full in its explanation or context. I know Cal Crutchlow, Stalker and the Lowe Brothers. One of them (no names) has said to me the Keith Code thing is crap, counter steering theory is crap, their body positioning is crap, their theory that you can't steer through foot pegs is crap......etc, etc it goes on. One of them wears boots out per race he pushes that hard on the pegs. Different opinions. Sat in the sauna with one of them they can't explain to me what THEY actually do which is interesting. I can see their body positioning is not Code compliant but here's what I will say about CSS. It has revolutionised the way I steer a bike - completely changed how I steer - faster turning at much faster entries and more confidently. I am turning later - I use more of the track (I would have though an earlier turn in was a negative thing in some cases???) I am feeling more feedback and seeing more of the track as I ride, time (seeing) buys me space which allows me more thinking time which lets me brake later and/or ride more smoothly. It has reduced my lap times by about 5 seconds which is completely subjective - when I started and was clueless I was doing 2.36 - I went to an average 1.58 with time and experience. Following CSS training (levels one and two) my average is 1.52 so quoting huge lap time reductions is subjective - either a phenominal improvement or you were really shit before!!!  I jest but I'm sure you get my point. For me the CSS package is very well thought out, progressive and it is improving my riding each time I go. I will in time do Stalkers Race School and see how that compares but I am sold on the California Superbike School. That said I left level one unable to utilise what they were teaching and I was extremely frustrated (previous posts re this) but I persisted with it and the penny dropped a few trackdays after and 5 seconds fell off my laptimes. It started with being able to change my body position which then allowed other elements to start working. I don't doubt Neil Hodgeson knows what he's talking about ( I think he wons some races....) and a few pointers here and there is fine. For the average rider the CSS provides solutions for every type of turn/corner. It is a brilliant package for every level of rider.

  If we cut you in half you have CCS printed right through you like a stick of rock.
Obviously works for you and if you're buying into what motorcycling's evangelist Keith Code preaches then more power to ya.
I've taken advice from Gardner, Pitt and Slater. (and tuition from Hodgson) and that works for me, CCS didn't. If fact it screwed my riding up. Neil Undone that and got my mojo back.
As you said for the average rider it works.

[mc101]

Hmmm....

Sam is extremely hard on the brakes so he's not an especially average candidate to use as an example as talented as he maybe fwiw.

I dont dislike the code method(s) but so much of the CSS content applies less today because technology has moved on substantially since the 1970's, especially in the tyre and suspension domain.  I've done CSS 1-2 and its OK but I've also had 5 days 1-2-1 with Crafar over the last 3 seasons and I'd say he's much more in tune with current riding and technology that the code methodology preaches and I'm going alot quicker than I did in the old days - in part due to extra experience etc.

Rookies can get something from CSS, Haslam etc and perhaps progress a good amount - that I am certain off.  However to really progress beyond a certain level you need focused, 1-2-1 time with people that have done it for real in my experience.

[r1ninja]

You can only learn if the teacher can put across the info in the right way, lots of good sportsman make great coaches but a lot of them aren't suited to that role either. As someone said a while back, if you were learning golf, who would you rather have teaching you, Tiger Woods or Tiger Wood's coach ?

I doubt Casey Stoner would make a good instructor, he probably doesn't know why he does what he does, it's just natural to him, most of the other GP riders couldn't work out what and why he was doing what he did.
I've heard good reports about Crafar from various sources, probably out of reach financially for most of us though

[NellyB]

It all revolves around feedback, them to you & you to them without it teaching is useless, i make the above statement as a Lecturer,
Neil

[r1ninja]

It all revolves around feedback, them to you & you to them without it teaching is useless, i make the above statement as a Lecturer,
Neil

Possibly, although someone with the knowledge can spot where you are going wrong, even if you cant see it yourself

[Henas]

its called being  consciously comptenet  as a martial arts instructor you have to be able to brake down what you apply and relay it in the simplist of forms so each individual can understand ?like r1ninja said the best of sportsmen arent the best teachers as they cant or are unable to reflect on why and how the do a action to show others
any way my opinion is just get out and play and learn with friends doing track days i found not that ive met much people faster but if they are i just ride in their wheel tracks and you soon learn as they pull you along (fact !!!!)

[EXJ10R]

Hodgson commented on Crafar and said the way he teaches stuff is very simular, and what really helped was at lunch he took us for a spin in the hire car around the circuit for a couple of laps to hit home on the correct line, braking markers and apexes amongst other good info before continuing the afternoon sessions.
The feedback he gave was immeasurable.
MC101 said about being in tune with modern bikes and that's exactly how Neil worked.

[Jak]

I think its important to keep an open mind and absorb all the information out there using what works for you. To use a martial arts analogy, Bruce lee (for those of you like me, old enough to remember  ) didn't get to be the greatest martial artist of all time (no argument) by restricting himself to one particular style 

[Markyboyzx6r]

[robbosliding]

MarkyboyZX6R has prompted me into a purchase tonight - bought a bundle package of the Motovudu book and DVD. I have really enjoyed and benefitted from the CSS instruction - eventually. I have posted on this already. I did not click AT ALL on level one and came away SOOOOOOO frustrated. I could not turn late nor counter steer consciously and push the front end to the effect they were asking me to. I persisted with it on and off road and eventually the penny dropped and I got there. I certainly now ride better as a result both on road and track. I am however completely open to other views and schools of thought.
I am sceptical of claims of epithany such as MarkyboyZX6R claims of shaving huge times off laps - if the rider was very poor in the first place (said without predudice Marky!!!) some instruction on lines and position twinned with growing familiarity with a circuit will make a huge difference to a rider. I was riding (with poor technique) as fast as I could and was achieving a reasonable time around a track (top end of inters group) with poor technique. After the CSS penny dropped I lost about 5 seconds tops on a good lap but I had so much more control and feel and I am still improving. I am interested to see Crafars instruction and techniques. "Getting up on the tank" is the reverse of what I was taught at the CSS so I look forward to seeing and trying Crafars techniques. I can only hope he arrives like the Angel Gabriel and I am on my knees to him with much reduced lap times. I'll give anything a go.......

[Wayno]

Some very good views here. I can see that the various riding schools help different riders. I would like to do a days course with a school, to aid in my leaning confidence and cornering, with not rolling off the throttle mid bend, which I do my upmost not to do, but occasionally creeps in.

Heard good things about Stalkers School from following BSB and speaking to fans at various tracks last season.

[robbosliding]

Ok.....Bought Motovudu and watched it. I have no doubt that what Si Crafar works for him and he is a astonishing rider, no question. There are some bits of instruction that directly fly in the face of what CSS teach, almost as if he has gone out of his way to do so!
There are some elements of his style that I can see work very well for him and I can understand the science of what he is teaching and his reasoning. I am going to stick with the CSS teaching in the main - the biggest difference for me is actually sitting me back further has given me much greater steering control particularly for chicanes and hairpins. CSS worked very hard to STOP me being up on the tank and pivoting around it..... I can still get up on the tank under acceleration and for the mountain to maximise launch and reduce wheelie. However I like the idea of harder straight away on the brakes and making more straights. A closed throttle mid corner doesn't work for me and I'm not feeling his "don't use the throttle to control the suspension"- The CSS throttle control has helped me - closing it loads the front and makes my front heavy and less compliant, doesn't work for me but clearly does for Simon Crafar, he's won 500cc GP's!!!
I will take some stuff away from it and no doubt in time trial some of his techniques but not before I'm done with the CSS.