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Author Topic: Traction control????  (Read 12005 times)

r1ninja

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Re: Traction control????
« Reply #75 on: February 18, 2009, 07:09:48 PM »

Lorenzo is a VERY talented guy. Probably putting too much faith in in his electronics caused his problems. Good argument for banning all rider aids, let the real talent shine through.
Inexperience mainly, just giving it too much throttle. He'll learn even if it is the hard way
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Phil

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Re: Traction control????
« Reply #76 on: February 18, 2009, 11:28:59 PM »

One of the main control methods is to have the system monitor and react to the rate of rise in RPM, on aspirated engines you can, as has already been said pull some ignition timing out or even use a percentage ignition cut, this allows the engine to still drive but softens the power. You can also over complicate what can esentially be achieved without many of the sensors that have been listed. A 'G' sensor for example is a usefull tool for detecting when the engine is no longer pushing the bike forward especialy when shifting gear. Some teams are looking at 50k to get somewhere near a reasonable traction control system up and running with limited success.
An advantage to spinning the rear comming out of bends is that it enables you to fire the bike harder down the next straight, its also a bloody good deterent when someone tries to ride around the outside, make a bigger object to get around.
In a car its easier to do as you have more wheels to distribute the power to should one start to slip. When a bike starts to spin the rear, the suspension unloads and this has the effect of unloading the tyre and giving a smaller contact patch.
And to do it even reasonably well I think you would need at least something like a Motec M800 preferably an 880 and a Motec dash. All big money stuff. Maybe a better idea to learn how to ride by the seat of your pants and feel what the bike is doing under you, through the bars, pegs seat etc.
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r1ninja

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Re: Traction control????
« Reply #77 on: February 19, 2009, 09:33:55 AM »

This is the reason TC will always be more difficult on bikes than in cars. You have to let the riders get the bike out of shape withouht cutting power and still finding traction.
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ZX10R-RACER

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Re: Traction control????
« Reply #78 on: February 19, 2009, 10:18:59 AM »

Lorenzo`s high side`s when he closed the throttle not when he opened it. (certainly at lugna) 
Most high sides are caused when the throttle is fully closed mid corner, i know you all want believe that but its ture.

Next time your on a track day and your on a fast corner try closing the throttle mid corner and the open it again your`ll slide.
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r1ninja

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Re: Traction control????
« Reply #79 on: February 19, 2009, 11:00:19 AM »

Lorenzo`s high side`s when he closed the throttle not when he opened it. (certainly at lugna) 
Most high sides are caused when the throttle is fully closed mid corner, i know you all want believe that but its ture.



Usually trhe throttle is closed because the rider shuts it off as he's spun up the rear and  the back end has lost grip
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fido

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Re: Traction control????
« Reply #80 on: February 19, 2009, 12:36:21 PM »

Yea the rear spins up so the reaction is to  shut the throttle reducing the power to the wheel which then grips instead of spinning and hey presto...a high side.
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ZX10R-RACER

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Re: Traction control????
« Reply #81 on: February 19, 2009, 12:42:58 PM »

trust me you try it, mallory is a good place you shut the throttle off half way round gerrads and you`ll see,

a moto gp rider wont shut the throttle if it starts to spin there not track day riders.

i know for a fact that Lorenzo`s high side at l/seca was cus he shut the throttle off mid corner, he said it him self.
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r1ninja

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Re: Traction control????
« Reply #82 on: February 19, 2009, 12:45:50 PM »

Nobody is arguing with you numb nuts
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ZX10R-RACER

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Re: Traction control????
« Reply #83 on: February 19, 2009, 01:02:10 PM »

i did say any one was, i just knew someone would say its to much throttle.
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r1ninja

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Re: Traction control????
« Reply #84 on: February 19, 2009, 01:08:31 PM »

Usually it's too much throttle that causes the rider to shut off , causing the highside. That has been established a while back. Thanks for you undoubted expertise, expect a phone call from Andy Ibbot anytime soon ;)
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ZX10R-RACER

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Re: Traction control????
« Reply #85 on: February 19, 2009, 01:10:54 PM »

you should take more notice , could have saved your self a lot of trouble at mallory.  [whistle] [whistle] [whistle]
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r1ninja

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Re: Traction control????
« Reply #86 on: February 19, 2009, 01:15:41 PM »

you should take more notice , could have saved your self a lot of trouble at mallory.  [whistle] [whistle] [whistle]
yeah  it's easy sitting at a pc. Obviously your talent has yet to be recognised, i doubt self proclaimed "fastest rider on zx10r.co.uk" will get you into Motocourse just yet.
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ZX10R-RACER

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Re: Traction control????
« Reply #87 on: February 19, 2009, 01:25:54 PM »

im turning down offers all the time  [whistle] [whistle] [whistle] i`ll stick to trackdays and club racing for now
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r1ninja

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Re: Traction control????
« Reply #88 on: February 19, 2009, 01:39:54 PM »

Anyway back on topic, as has been covered there are so many parameters involved in tc it's a minefield.  It isn't just an anti wheelspin or anti highside device, it's much more complex than that.
Thats why it costs so much and is so hard to get right. Big respect to the motogp racers, all this bollocks about the bikes being easy to ride is just that, bollocks.
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morepower

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Re: Traction control????
« Reply #89 on: February 24, 2009, 10:16:36 PM »

Anyway back on topic, as has been covered there are so many parameters involved in tc it's a minefield.  It isn't just an anti wheelspin or anti highside device, it's much more complex than that.
Thats why it costs so much and is so hard to get right.
Big respect to the motogp racers, all this bollocks about the bikes being easy to ride is just that, bollocks.

It is funny how easy it can seem if you read some of the magazine stuff or see the claims from companies like Bazzazz. But it really is more about the person who sets up the system than the parts used in the system.

I would love to see a real traction control system in production and feel what difference it makes...But it will be a while before we see a real system on a road bike which is not an "Option" or locked until you have a full race kit.
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