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[robbosliding]

I will leave the organiser nameless as I have experienced this with a number of track day organisers before, here's the scenario. I booked onto a Silverstone circuit trackday over two months ago. From my own experience if I go to a fresh circuit I need to go slower to learn it properly. Never been to Silverstone circuit before so thought Novice to begin would be sensible and safe for all around. This next bit is something I feel quite strongly about - I am the customer, I am paying, I am choosing my group, its my choice. I arrived at Silverstone to be told at booking on that I am booked on for the intermediate group and, "There's no chance of changing it now" - from the supervisor on the day- Well, I don't know whats "changing now" as I booked it two months ago. What it smacks of is money over safety. I was told it was based on my experience (ie number of track days). Who are they to say or know that I haven't had a big accident, new bike, injury or whatever.  At beingthe risk of sounding like a fanny, nowadays I find the fast group is predominantly club racers, very quick road riders and the inters is like the fast days of old. I was getting my knee down on the sighting laps and was struggling to keep up!!!
Here's the thing, a few times I nearly had some comings together (I may well have been off the line, or not, I was learning the circuit) and there was some very close, fast passing. I coped with that I picked up the circuit by the afternoon. There was however red flags all day long in the inters and I wasn't very impressed with the overall supervision of riders behaviour. I had considered taking my brand new ZX10R instead of my track bike, I'm pleased I didn't. I am going to Snetterton for the first time next week and am thinking the same, booked on as novice, might take the new ZX10R. Or maybe I'll get there to be told I'm doing different, I haven't got what I asked and paid for and its a lottery of safety as I try to learn a new circuit at the pace of an experienced group. Trackday organisers- stop being greedy and get a grip. Safety first, not profit. Practice what you preach.

[NinjaTim]

Thats FE for ya, I wont say never because mates sometimes book with them but I dont use them if I can avoid it, dont like thier attitude to paying customers and dont like being talked down to, afaic theres a way to treat customers and their way aint right.

Very often see way too many bikes on circuit, been out in group sizes of 60 at Snett and sillystone and they wonder why theres so many crashes, its just too congested and frustrating for me, not to mention bloody dangerous

I know theres a lot of FE bashing on various forums and I dont generally get involved it but they really do bring it on themselves at times.

No Limits open pitlane all the way 

[robbosliding]

For balance I have had some very good days with Focused Events, this week wasan example of bad customer service/relations. I sign to say I understand terms and conditions, I'd like the group that I elected and paid for, particularly when I booked so far in advance. I fairness to Focused Events the guy that own the company is all over his staff when he attends, the safety and smooth running is his primary concern, he runs a tight ship and it is obvious when he is there. I really like his chrono days too. Agreed re No limits, I have had some very good days with them too. We all have our off days but Thursday annoyed me, bad drills, bad attitude.

[Jak]

I've witnessed this at Pembrey a few years back when a couple of guys parked beside me in the paddock who had booked novice but were allocated to inters. The TDO said it was a mixed Novice/Inter group. One of the guys clearly felt out of his depth, although I dont remember any incidents.

FE ask how many TD's you've done and reserve the right to change your group accordingly. I can understand why they might move someone up who has considerable TD experience. Looking at it from another perspective, it could be quite intimidating for a genuine novice to be faced with a group of experienced TD riders who just want to get to know the track

I agree that the inters group can be quite lairy and a lot of people reckon your better off and safer in advanced where at least people generally know how to ride

I have very limited experience with TDO's, but I found FE to be OK and reasonably well organised.

I'm going with them next weekend 

[robbosliding]

I generally agree with you, and I am not wanting to single FE out, it isn't the first time that the this has happened, and probably not just FE, it has happened before when I have been put in the fast group because of the amount of times I have done Cadwell. They are generalising to suit their bookings and maximise profits. I consider myself to be quick inter, slow fast group - on a track evening thats where I would put myself. Regarding my earlier comments re fast groups nowadays I have been at Cadwell on a Friday preceeding a club meeting when the fast group is predominatly club racers- and its murder. No amount of spiel from the TDO makes any difference (even if they did enforce it), I have been caught up in personal little battles and been clipped similtaneously both sides by guys racing on a track day which is not on. My whinge is this, when the group is fully booked and that should be it, (actually what I have paid my money for!) what they are doing is shifting people around to suit their own needs for profitability. To be told "Its a slow fast group today" is a lie and insults my intelligence. The fact I make it a slow fast group just happens by chance!  . They need to grip this, when an accident occurs with serious injury and the victim shows they were misplaced in groupings I think they could be made to answer questions. Despite all said, I haven't got a massive cock stand on about this, I just don't like being treated like fodder as a paying customer, I must put a good 2-3K their way per year, I like to get what I paid for and don't like being talked down to which I don't think is asking too much.

[robbosliding]

For a bit of balance, I went to Snetterton yesterday for the first time, an Focused event, and was probably the smoothest run track day that I have been on. However I did a bit of timing and found the following observation. There were some folk in the novice group going around faster than some in the fast group. That said it was a safe day (very safe circuit) with minimal incidents. I do feel sorry for those on their first trackday (there were some very wobbly novices) when there are glory seekers buzzing them who should be in higher ability groups. I suppose the only "safe" way for a wobbly novice now to get settled in is a novice only track day.

[Nutz]

This is why I am going to do FE Chrono day, that way you go into a similar group.

[Wheeltrax]

All valid points and if you book a specific group (esp if its for a specific reason) then thats what you should get.
I can understand ppl being shuffled around a bit as the day goes on (a sensible thing imo) as you will always get riders who for one reason or another are in the wrong group.
Very frustrating all round and not made easier by commercial pressures or, lets face it, dick heads on the track.
Maybe if track etiquette and behaviour were better policed then all this wouldnt be so much of an issue.

[robbosliding]

Completely agree with you Wheeltrax. I rode fast group yesterday at Cadwell in the wet (having booked as intermediate) - an honest reason given at book on - we didn't have enough space in the inters so as "one of the most experienced" I'd been put in the fast group. I was a bit annoyed but it did me a favour really, the faster boys pulled me along and gave me confidence to go quicker in the wet, fair play to those riders in hte group, they rode and passed with space and consideration, and much to my delight I wasn't the slowest in the group. I got my knee down around Barn, Charlies and Chris Curve in the pissing rain. It lifted me a level and has given me confidence in wets, so misplaced as their motivation maybe it did me good yesterday.

[SRADChris46]

They only do this because they get too greedy and over book one group the closer the event gets...to maximise profits.

So a novice group may be 20 bikes too large and theyve got no takers for inters...they will keep booking until they have a total number, then allocate groups. Its B/S, happened to me at Snett 300 with Fcuked events and they wanted me to sign a waiver form for the new grass too! Takes the piss, thats what their insurance is for!

As for the groups, its a fcuking liability, you are the paying customer, you decide which group you start the day in, if it pans out that you are too fast or too slow, then move accordingly.

[magic1]

Waiver form for the new grass...?? what,s that all about then?  they want compensating if you get it wrong and end up grasstracking ? shurely not!

[ajhutch69]

It seems the trackdays in UK are run a bit differently to over here in Ireland, although we only have Mondello Park in the south.
Over here when a group fills up, that's it. They won't take any more bookings, but that can lead to people booking the inter group. Or people going into the advanced group when they want into the inters. I don't think the organisers ask how many trackdays you've done before so you're put in the group you pay for.

I was an instructor at Mondello from 2006 to 2010 and was recently back there for the Down Syndrome Ireland trackday last week. If we (instructors), see someone who is too slow or fast for the group, we will get them changed during the course of the day. If we see someone overtaking too close to someone, we'll bring them in and give them a warning. If they do it again, they'll be asked to leave.

When I was racing in the UK in 2007, I hadn't been to any of the tracks before but found it helpful looking at onboard footage to help learn which direction and rough lines for that track. If anyone on here would like any of my race vids for the same purpose, gimme a PM and I'll gladly share the links.