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[jamma10566]

I cant do it! I can run with all but the very fastest in the fast group on trackdays but can I get my knee down? Can I fook! Arthritis i reckon!

[Foil Boot]

TBH I reckon you can go faster without the knee down buisness, although I initially went faster to get my knee down, I know find myself slowing. I have heard it said that not getting knee down is usually faster, but hey I'm no expert or racer. Where are all the race experts when you need em???

[Deejay]

TBH I reckon you can go faster without the knee down buisness, although I initially went faster to get my knee down, I know find myself slowing. I have heard it said that not getting knee down is usually faster, but hey I'm no expert or racer. Where are all the race experts when you need em???

I suppose to answer that you just have to watch Rossi and co. Do they get their knee down?

Having said that, I'm by no means the quickest on track but find that my knee gets in the way on the sharper turns. I often have to bring it back up off the floor to get extra lean angle. I find getting your knee down is a useful way of judging lean angle, and that's pretty much it. The real benefit is the body position - hanging off the bike allows you to get less lean angle for any given speed.

Here's a gratuitous shot from last Monday


Despite the fact that I touch my knee at every turn around Snetterton I just can't bring myself to do it on the road. I'm terrified of hitting something horrible on the surface and ending up in a tree!

[jamma10566]

Very nice gratuitous shot chap!

I dont care whether it makes you faster or not, I just want to be able to do it!

[zx10manic]

Well judging by your pic im sure you can see whats wrong. First of, unless your exceeeeeedingly tall, your sat too far forward, need to edge back a bit. Then your top half is fine its just your arse you need to shift. Just copy the guy behind you. Shift a cheek over and point out your leg, with a wee bit more angle you'll hearing a scrape in no time!

[Deejay]

Thanks

Yep, agree entirely. If you're running those sort of lean angles in the fast group, then you'll have no issues with a couple of tweaks.

Here are the pointers I was given, and given a bit of practice they worked wonders:

1) Prepare for the corner before you get to it. Before you start the turn you need to get your body position setup for the corner
2) Sit so that you can fit your fist between your b*llocks and the tank. Shift one ass cheek off the seat. You're aiming for the seam of your leathers to be on the edge of the seat. More than a cheek will probably end up with you twisting around the tank - you don't want that
3) Most people struggle with their upper body position, though yours looks great. Basically, you want to keep you spine straight. That usually means attempting to put your head where your mirrors would have been.
4) Stick you knee out as far as you can. To do this, concentrate on bringing your heal in as much as possible and pushing your toe out. Make sure you're on your toes - we don't want those touching first. Despite you thinking you want to touch your knee, you're brain is programmed to avoid contact with tarmac! Focus on the heal thing rather than the angle of your knee and you'll be fine.
5) Find a slow/medium speed corner that you're comfortable with and practice.
6) To start with it will feel like you're hanging off like a monkey - you're not. Check photos between sessions to convince yourself

Once you've done it once, you'll get smoother and it'll feel more natural very quickly. I went from hitting (not skimming) my knee on one corner to knee down smooth dragging in about 20 mins on track. Get your body posiiton right once and the psychological barrier with deal with itself.  !

[jamma10566]

Thanks for the advice. Will give it a try and let you know how i get on.

[WAZHALO31]

I would love to be able to do it, I have been trying for years. as Jamma says it may not make me any faster but i just want to touch down even if its just one knee. my 62 year old dad can do it but I can't how embarrasing

[Deejay]

Thanks for the advice. Will give it a try and let you know how i get on.

Best of luck with that. It really is a great feeling when you first manage it. If it helps, I'll take all the credit. If you bin it, blame zx10manic   

[Foil Boot]

I agree with the above about "just wanting to be able to do it " thats exactly how I was. I even considered a race school just to do it. There are a lot of you tube clips offering pointers 

[Deejay]

I agree with the above about "just wanting to be able to do it " thats exactly how I was. I even considered a race school just to do it. There are a lot of you tube clips offering pointers 

Schools like the california superbike school don't do body position until level 3 which is about 1k worth of training. However, there is a YouTube vid of them teaching position on the bike

[magic1]

all you need now is a trackday to put all the new info you have into play and get that knee down.................yea haaa well done fella 

 
will have to be a circuit with only lefts then presumably?   sorry smith690 only kidding.

[Foil Boot]

I agree with the above about "just wanting to be able to do it " thats exactly how I was. I even considered a race school just to do it. There are a lot of you tube clips offering pointers 

Schools like the california superbike school don't do body position until level 3 which is about 1k worth of training. However, there is a YouTube vid of them teaching position on the bike

Bloody hell!!! I never realised  glad I did it on me own. I spent a lot of time watching clips and getting used to body position first. Practised reverse steering (which has helped me out of an occasional tight corner). Also advised to approach corners in 3rd gear as I think this is considered a "forgiving" gear at this speed. 2nd gear risks a high side as its easier to light the back tyre up and 4th will result in Kangaroo syndrome 

[zx10manic]

Thanks for the advice. Will give it a try and let you know how i get on.

Best of luck with that. It really is a great feeling when you first manage it. If it helps, I'll take all the credit. If you bin it, blame zx10manic   

  Cheers fella

The thing with getting your knee down is once you've done it the first time it all sorta twigs, and you'll find it a lot easier the next time and the next.

Maybe we ought to get all the kd virgins together and have a little sesh at a roundabout somewhere?

[Deejay]

I agree with the above about "just wanting to be able to do it " thats exactly how I was. I even considered a race school just to do it. There are a lot of you tube clips offering pointers  

Schools like the california superbike school don't do body position until level 3 which is about 1k worth of training. However, there is a YouTube vid of them teaching position on the bike

Bloody hell!!! I never realised   glad I did it on me own. I spent a lot of time watching clips and getting used to body position first. Practised reverse steering (which has helped me out of an occasional tight corner). Also advised to approach corners in 3rd gear as I think this is considered a "forgiving" gear at this speed. 2nd gear risks a high side as its easier to light the back tyre up and 4th will result in Kangaroo syndrome  

Without wanting to go too off-topic here, I thought I should explain that a little better before everyone thinks CSS is a rip off!

What they teach is the mechanics of riding a bike and give you a toolkit that you can us on the road/track to ride quicker and safer.

You have to start at level 1 (everyone does, including professional racers) and progress to level 4. The theory is that there's a lot to learn prior to actually even thinking about position on the bike. Courses are 300 quid+ each, thus around 1000 quid to complete levels 1-3 (3 being where body position is taught).

If you want to simply get your knee down, then it's not the place to go. If you want to improve your riding then I'd certainly recommend it.

For example, you mentioned that you applied the power too early and thus ended up touching down with your knee briefly. One of the things covered in level 1 is throttle control. If you did the course you'd probably find you were on the gas too late, not too early! They teach you to balance the bike right using the throttle just as soon as you've completed the steering input. That's usually way before the apex of a turn.

If you're interested in learning more, I can't recommend Keith Code's 'Twist of the Wrist' books enough. They cover all of the theory about riding bikes on a circuit. In fact they're the course material for each CSS course.

I hope all that didn't come across as partonising. I'm not a great/super quick rider and am by no means an expert. However, I do have a keen interest in becoming one and it sounds like a few on here would like to improve their riding too so I thought I'd share what I'd read/learnt

Oh, and my little boast of the day - the picture above was taken on Corums curve  running at about about 10k revs in 4th gear. God, I love that bend The correct gear very much depends on entry and exit speed and how much you trust your right hand in applying smooth throttle roll on.