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Author Topic: A fu@kin disgrace !  (Read 6867 times)

10RDan

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Re: A fu@kin disgrace !
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2013, 01:43:12 PM »

Your last point is, pretty much, my point.

"if it was proven she was on the phone and a lack of concentration caused the accident entirely jail her."

She, eventually, admitted using the phone for the entire journey. Doesn't really constitute "short lapse of concentration".

So after admitting to using the phone and the option to check phone records, when it suits them, if they didn't, it just seems that someone has been very incompetent "somewhere" in the process.

They're quick enough to hand out fixed penalty fines for using a phone, and rightly so imo, so it baffles me as to how someone that causes such a serious, and fatal, accident can avoid being prosecuted. Regardless of what the charge is called.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 01:45:35 PM by 10RDan »
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robbosliding

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Re: A fu@kin disgrace !
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2013, 02:49:06 PM »

Your thinking is reasonable, I can't disagree with you. There is no way in a fatal investigation that the phone will not have been interrogated. The driver may have verbally denied using it at the time (particularly if she thought herself at fault and then faced with devastation at the scene and the Boys in Blue turning up. The Defence will argue shock was a factor, embarrassment and not wanting to admit she had done wrong (particularly as a Special), re concern about her peers opinions and lets face it, if she did look and did not see him (entirely possible) she will not consider herself at fault and will not want to incriminate herself, all points of human nature, whoever she maybe. Her initial account -even given under caution can easily be negated by the Defence as being given under duress, stress, shock or simply getting it wrong. Giving a different account or remaining silent is not allowed to cause a Jury to presume guilt - it can be challenged and undermines the accused but doesn't presume her guilty. The point the prosecution would want to show was that she was on the phone at the material time - without eye witnesses nearly impossible to do. Prove the call had not ended seconds before.
Imagine that you have just finished using your phone and you are involved in an accident, say within a minute or two. Should an accident investigation hinge on the presumption that you were on the phone? You might find yourself going to prison simply for having an accident when the phone played no part. Clearly this outlook sees a lot of guilty parties walk free, but here's a question. Would you rather a innocent man go to prison or a murderer walk free?
Robbosliding QC. :downtown:
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10RDan

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Re: A fu@kin disgrace !
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2013, 03:09:47 PM »

Once again " I can't disagree with you" either........ but

as I said in my OP, I'm sure I remember a politician a few years ago being involved in a motorway accident and being convicted of something related to the accident because phone records showed he had sent a text, while driving, sometime well before the accident.

Lets be havin it.  :-P  :glasses9:
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robbosliding

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Re: A fu@kin disgrace !
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2013, 03:38:02 PM »

Indeed, lets be havin it then.  Innocent man going to prison or murderer walking free? Tough one isn't it but I think we all know the answer.
If the crux of your post illustrates that there is no continuity in the courts then  :occasion14: we agree again, the system can be nothing more than a theatrical farce. Its doesn't promote much confidence. It hangs its hat on "beyond all reasonable doubt" and where there is doubt cast.....Still, better than getting stitched up!!!
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10RDan

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Re: A fu@kin disgrace !
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2013, 04:07:23 PM »

"If the crux of your post illustrates that there is no continuity in the courts then  :occasion14: we agree again,"
 :icon_thumright:

Score draw  :?:
 :occasion14:

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Bobtra69

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Re: A fu@kin disgrace !
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2013, 12:27:56 AM »

For fuck's sake Robbosliding, get to the point, if you really are a QC you are indicative of the bullshit that goes on in the corridors of every court building. We have here another case of rider gets knocked off by dumb arse car driver, special copper or not, driver escapes with no comeback at all, we're not talking escaping a custodial sentence here, we're talking no prosecution at all!

Call me naive, but I know from personal experience that, yes, they do look after their own, I don't know what cloud cuckoo land you are living in!

I know you will write another mega piece on the rights and wrongs of the whole justice system and in there you will berate myself and lots of other 'naive' bikers, but you're obviously a biker so you must understand how mad it makes me and i guess a lot of others when this kind of 'miscarriage of justice' happens.
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robbosliding

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Re: A fu@kin disgrace !
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2013, 08:59:30 AM »

"Robbosliding QC :downtown:" A QC I am not. I'll clear that up now. I do have some knowledge and experience of the Criminal Justice System and I think it far from ideal. Of course as a biker and a citizen things like this make my blood boil but look. You have reacted in exactly the way the media intended. "Cop gets off". Typical tabloid type headline written to provoke and promote sales of newspapers.
It is written to suggest the driver to be at fault and the biker innocent with a selective amount of disclosed facts. Without  a court scrutinising evidence miscarriages of justice would regularly occur with innocent folk getting locked up for police success stories and "public confidence". The whole point of the immensely annoying and undermining "discontinuances" is to prevent innocent people getting sentenced. I agree with you that she should have been prosecuted for using the phone if it was shown she was on the phone whilst driving but it looks like CPS missed that by charging DBCD and not adding "use mobile phone" to the tariff- they went for the whole hog and missed the boat.
OK, try and look at it this way. If you were riding "enthusiatically" one minute passing cars at "a percieved but not evidenced speed" and an accident occured down the road and lets say you killed a driver in a car for arguments sake. The real facts were that you slowed down for the junction and the driver was totally at fault but there were no witnesses to say otherwise. Would it be right that evidence gathered by police from the car drivers you passed at excess speed minutes earlier concluded that "It would have been the bikers fault, he was speeding". Its the same thing here. It would appear she has benefitted from doubt cast. A Jury member will be directed by an experienced Judge who will direct/advise them to prevent miscarriages of justice. It is actually there to protect the innocent however the by product is the guilty sometimes walk free. Just for one minute open your mind to this. She did use her phone but she put it down to negotiate the junction. The biker overtook on the junction and is actually at fault - The police, new young traffic officer makes the evidence fit for his first successful fatal investigation. He does it out of over zealousness, not maliace.This is why the system is not perfect and safe gaurds are put in place but even then it isn't without fault.
I completely empathise, relate to and feel your frustration but this is a headline grabbing report designed to captivate and outrage bikers, now lets not let the facts get in the way of a good story!!!!
In 1998 I was investigated for an allegation of attempt murder. I provided my own defence out of neccesity and after 18 months of immense stress the case was dropped citing "no case to answer". I have studied Criminal Law and what may surprise some is I don't resent the police for what I went through. They were doing their job and they did it objectively achieving a proper and correct result. Just like this MCN report, some mud has been thrown and some will presume I did something violent to become a suspect. I won't go into details (thank God I hear Bobtra69 say) but some reading this will now put me in a criminal box because of that allegation. On the flip side I recently suffered a serious injury as a result of assault. The CPS discontinued the case. As clear cut as it was I wasn't surprised (I hold realistic expectations - important in this arena). The bullshit system is nonetheless the established system. It is inadequate, antiquated and at times hugely disappointing but it is the system and it won't get changed - the Barristers both defence and Prosecution will see to that - they earn too much money through it. Highly expensive and ineffective IMHO. Did you know that Barristers who earn their money in a career of defence can go on to be Crown Court Judges - how mercenary is that - or not? Perhaps make an outstanding Judge as he will see throught the muddy waters of the Defence? Seems wrong to me though.
Bobtra69, please forgive me if I have been a little lengthy but a string of comments and speculation (of which most I agree with in spirit) need a little more discussion and substance if this forum is not going to degenerate into a Kangaroo court. She may well have been guilty as sin but I stick to my point - better a murderer go free than an innocent man go prison.
Added to that Bobtra69, I have the right of free speech on this public forum....... so now then, human rights............................... :occasion14:
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 11:57:07 AM by robbosliding »
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Bobtra69

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Re: A fu@kin disgrace !
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2013, 10:40:25 AM »

Sir, you truly have been there, done that, ate the pie, worn the t-shirt etc.

You and I have to meet up sometime, we'll have a cracking conversation (if a little boring for others present!).

Appreciate your thoughts, no offence intended....but don't get me started on human rights!

 [wall]
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robbosliding

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Re: A fu@kin disgrace !
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2013, 11:51:26 AM »

No offence taken, I know when I post on such a subject it will be contraversal to some and be emotive to some. It's entertaining and a bit of sport too. What isn't entertaining is the tragedy for both parties involved regardless of fault.
It would be good to meet up and the RAF Waddington Airfield Riding Day could be the ideal venue, there will be a good few forum members there too. You can all throw stones at me! [rofl]
www.airfieldridingday.co.uk (couldn't resist the plug!) :icon_thumright:
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 11:59:22 AM by robbosliding »
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NinjaPaul

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10RDan

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Re: A fu@kin disgrace !
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2013, 10:58:38 PM »

Saw it !
 :dontknow:  [wall]
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Bobtra69

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Re: A fu@kin disgrace !
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2013, 11:04:46 PM »

I hate this fuckin country....
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EXJ10R

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Re: A fu@kin disgrace !
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2013, 11:11:21 PM »

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2013/March/mar1513-drunk-driver-walks-free/

Now tell us the law isnt fucked  [wall]

Oh it's fucked alright...and it ain't always the Judges either belive it or not. Very close relatives of ours
worked within the CPS and what the maximum Judges can sentence for murder, rape, muggings and other serious crimes etc etc....is handed down from the Home Office. Fucking shit..
The whole thing is twisted.
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aprilia RSV4

Jester

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Re: A fu@kin disgrace !
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2013, 11:52:50 PM »

Do magistrates, who have quite restrictive powers compared to the higher-ups not have the ability to refer cases to a higher level if they think they don't believe they have the power to sentence an offender in line with an offence? Is there no 'scumbag clause' in extremis?
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Embarrassing myself on two wheels since 1995...

NinjaPaul

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Re: A fu@kin disgrace !
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2013, 12:15:53 AM »

Its an absolute fucking joke. This guy must be laughing his arse off at the justice system. This is the third time he's been done for DUI and he almost killed the poor lad he knocked off, then had the brass neck to drive off. He should be in jail, pure and simple and should be banned from driving FOREVER!!  [wall]
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