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[robbosliding]

[chaospunx]

great review mate glad you got something out of it hopefully see you on track somewhere next year
p.s very intresting about getting further back on the bike its something i have noticed others do but finding it difficult to do myself have even been thinking of putting a couple of layers of seat foam on the tank to physically stop me getting that close to it

[Pewters]

Excellent read pal.....I noticed myself that with your instep on the outside peg makes a huge difference (and help) to your body position. CCS is something I intend to do when funds allow.

[jeffoboyo1]

great read mate  , so with the outside foot do you mean that the front of your boot (toes) should be on the peg.!!

[zx10manic]

great read mate  , so with the outside foot do you mean that the front of your boot (toes) should be on the peg.!!

No, just before your toes you have the 'ball' of your foot, then further back is your instep/arch of  your foot, just before your heel.

[jeffoboyo1]

aa rite so the bit behind your big toe, thanks zx10manic...

[robbosliding]

Jeffoboyo1- I will clarify what I mean re foot position. For me to ensure the correct body position during cornering my OUTSIDE foot must have the instep on the peg. That is the cut out after your heel in the arch of your foot. This foot must be flush with the machine and toes NOT pointing out- this may seem very trivial but if the toes are beginning to point out it indicates to me that my body position may be twisting around the tank and in the wrong position. Having my foot flush on the machine allows me to clamp onto the tank (max use of stomp grip) and prevents me being to tight on the bars which inhibits steering. This correct position also allows me to clamp my knees tightly around the tank during braking, again stopping me being too tight on the bars and allowing the front suspention to work properly. This in turn stops me, my body weight over loading the front by placing my weight rewards and allows the bike to balance itself approx 60-70% on the rear under throttle to allow the front steer accurately and quickly by pushing on the inside bar. It gives me good purchase on the peg, the inside foot is toes on the peg to give clearance.
Chaospunx- The sensation and new control this has given me is significant. On the odd occasion I slip into bad habits I can immediately feel the disadvantage and can then fault find and correct it. If you think back to Waddington, and maybe you saw this at Rockingham, I was f**king awful turning my bike out of the tighter corners- think exiting the loop onto the piano keys and exiting back on the long straight. My old style allowed me to carry big speed into fast long sweepers eg Charlies, Chris Curve, Gerrards, the bottom of the runway as I could set up, hang off and then gas on all the way through it. I never feared losing the rear, I now realise I was stressing the front not the rear, which as CSS has taught me, is not in harmony with the bike design and was wrong. If I felt the front twitching or searching I thought it wrong and would grip bars the harder to resist this which was actually stressing the front even more. Consequently I constantly found exiting tighter corners that riders (you included!!!) could get their bikes turned quicker and back on the power and I was getting whupped. CSS has taught me to turn quicker (properly infact, in line with intended bike design) by sitting back to balance the bike in a firm secure and controlling position to enable me to use the front to steer the direction of the bike without hanging off- I can now steer by pushing the inside bar forward in a horizontal fashion to turn tighter and for corners like Coppice I can push harder to "select" a tighter line where as before I was a drifting passenger going around the corner, generally wide. The sensation of sitting back and pushing the inside bar is almost as if I am pushing the bike away from me, like I'm trying to wash it out. I have had to learn a new confidence in the front end and I have to say I am looking forward to trying this in the rain. This why I say I now understand "pushing the front end". The result of pushing hard and quick on the bars is I am changing direction much more quickly, where I was struggling at chicanes and hairpins, thats a problem of the past. I can now "quick flick" the bike more confidently. The hairpin is probably the best example, I can do quicker in, turn quicker and be back on the gas where before I was rolling in, hanging off (occasionally destabilising myself with too much hang, off not enough speed) and only then getting back on the gas. I've gone from being swallowed in some sections of circuit by other riders to holding my own quite nicely and am now making passes that I couldn't pull off before. As an aside my braking is also improving as I'm not overloading the front. It hasn't been a miracle, I have simply been shown how to ride properly where I wasn't before. What is completely baffling is that  for so long I was riding so hard completely wrong and didn't know it other than to say I knew the faster guys were doing something better/differently as I could not hold it with them on tighter bends. The CSS day isn't cheap but was it worth 4 trackdays at Cadwell for the price of the day? You bet, I am turning quicker, faster out and negotiating sections of track that I'd got into the habit of coasting around. Like I said in my original post, it didn't happen on the day but they gave me the knowledge to work on it. With some application I've got it with tremendous results. 6 seconds consistently off a lap time. Golden.

[zx10manic]

aa rite so the bit behind your big toe, thanks zx10manic...

Like this...

[robbosliding]

Ha ha, yep, instep for the outside foot, knee against the tank, ball of foot for the inside leg, knee feeling for the ground. Nice one. Good to keep afoot of things......

[jeffoboyo1]

ok thanks guys, will try this , i havent been riding that long so should be able to get used to that way, 

[zx10manic]

Good to keep afoot of things......

Ooh i see what you did there 

[jimhas7]

Great write up, wished Id been able to read it before last Monday, where I did Silverstone and found I was holding my own in the faster sections with some quicker riders but they where just blowing me away in the tighter turns. They where able to carry more corner speed than me and I was searching for an answer but couldnt work out what to change. I seemed to be ok on entry and similar on the brakes (Sometimes...) but now having read your write up I can relate to being too close to the tank in these tighter turns and also not having the correct peg position on my outer foot as you have described. I actually found myself leaning on the tank with my chest to stop me putting weight on the bars a couple of times which just added to my feeling that I am in need of tuition of some sort. 

I will be trying to apply this next time I go out 
Have a bhp 

[robbosliding]

Ok, I am no expert and having ony just started stepping in the right direction I don't want to appear to be offering advice to all and sundrie. But in the case for Jimhas7 would politely offer the following;
If you are having to rest your chest on the tank to relieve your wrists you are placing too much weight on the bars and therefore your body position is likely to be wrong. I was taught to have enough space to fit a fist between the tank and my groin. The position of your feet is a good indicator of what your legs are doing and whether they are doing it right. The "locked on" thing is your outer leg clamping to the bike to prevent you having to hold onto the handle bars- if you hang onto them and use them to pull yourself over the bike to change direction you will induce wiggles and destabilise the bike. You should be locked on with both knees (infact knees through to feet/inner leg) to brake and accelerate. Infact imagine your bike facing downwards on a 45 degree incline with no handle bars- you would have to clamp on with your knees, that is what you need to achieve and that will maintain your rearward desired seating position.  Now, as I understand it, if your weight is going down through your bars you will run wide. This is because as you lean in you will increase weight through the inside bar which creates a counter steering action and will cause the bike to run wide. The correct position is weight back, outer leg locked on and forearms horizontal to the ground "pushing" the inside bar forward ie pushing the left bar forward to turn left. As the front is pushed left it falls onto the inner left side of the tyre- you are using the profile to turn, not turning the bars left to go left if that makes sense. It has blown my mind getting this concept but now I've got it it has revolutionalised how I ride. I hope this help you Jim.

[jimhas7]

Ok, I am no expert and having ony just started stepping in the right direction I don't want to appear to be offering advice to all and sundrie. But in the case for Jimhas7 would politely offer the following;
If you are having to rest your chest on the tank to relieve your wrists you are placing too much weight on the bars and therefore your body position is likely to be wrong. I was taught to have enough space to fit a fist between the tank and my groin. The position of your feet is a good indicator of what your legs are doing and whether they are doing it right. The "locked on" thing is your outer leg clamping to the bike to prevent you having to hold onto the handle bars- if you hang onto them and use them to pull yourself over the bike to change direction you will induce wiggles and destabilise the bike. You should be locked on with both knees (infact knees through to feet/inner leg) to brake and accelerate. Infact imagine your bike facing downwards on a 45 degree incline with no handle bars- you would have to clamp on with your knees, that is what you need to achieve and that will maintain your rearward desired seating position.  Now, as I understand it, if your weight is going down through your bars you will run wide. This is because as you lean in you will increase weight through the inside bar which creates a counter steering action and will cause the bike to run wide. The correct position is weight back, outer leg locked on and forearms horizontal to the ground "pushing" the inside bar forward ie pushing the left bar forward to turn left. As the front is pushed left it falls onto the inner left side of the tyre- you are using the profile to turn, not turning the bars left to go left if that makes sense. It has blown my mind getting this concept but now I've got it it has revolutionalised how I ride. I hope this help you Jim.

All advice taken in context good or bad 

I was in inters for the first time and although the general pace of the group was not quick (IMO... or at least it didnt feel that way) mainly due to heavy traffic/group size. When free I was running around 15 seconds quicker than my last outing from the off due to picking up with some quicker guys on good lines (August 2010 was my last outing... which would have been more but just got over a back injury wiping out my 2011 road or track riding season) I found the faster corners easier to get to grips with and was more aggressive in the braking areas (Less afraid of getting it wrong for some reason?) however with the slow corners its always been my achiles heel. I am not as late on the brakes as I could be but had still improved from last time so much so that on a couple of occasions I would tip in thinking theres no way I can make it but if a faster bike was inside me and braking later and getting round I just used that as a confidence booster and would let off the brakes look through the turn and hey ho round she goes and a dam sight quicker than I was used too. But... I could tell my body position was wrong, hence the leaning on the tank a couple of times, I understand the theory of no weight on the bars hence body on the tank to counter it. This had not happened to me before at my old pace so I was puzzled how to fix it and understood I will not get faster in the slow turn until I fix my body position.

Another problem I found on Monday with my new found pace and confidence I was wearing my toesliders out even though I feel I have my toes on the peg I suspect I do not. I am 6`2" with size 12 boots so do struggle a bit to really get "on my toes" on the pegs tbh, and I know I dont hang off that much from my past photo`s from any TD`s done. No matter what I did I just couldnt get the boots out of the way.

On a couple of corners I regularly had to physically fight the bars (Puch as you say) to get the bike to turn but they where generally the faster corners. I was also finding my bars shaking a lot on the corner exits, now is that me pulling on the bars or just the ZX10R head shake appearing 

I think more track time is the order of the day for me and sooner or later a CSS session will be on the cards. Am also looking for one more TD before season ends... other than that my plans are to commit to a few more next year for sure now winter is descending upon us.

Top man for putting up the feedback its always good to share experiences it provides useful advice for the true beginer in terms of track time like me

[robbosliding]

I don't personally think the toe slider thing is an issue- your physical size is going to make you more "arms and legs" on a sport bike anyway. If your inside knee is pointing out your inside foot will naturally be pointing outward too. When your "toes" are on the peg we mean the ball of your foot most typically so your toes are most likely protruding slightly, hence the need for sliders. The pegs have hero blobs or "feelers" bolted to them as early warning to let you know you are near to grounding out. Had you considered adjusting your rearsets or fitting adjsutable rearsets to minimise this toe sliding?
Maybe I have misunderstood your resting on the tank? Are you resting weight on it to relieve your wrists or placing weight on the inside of it (I do this with my outside forearm to assist leaning the bike over along with my outside knee). The sensation of bars shaking maybe from holding on too tight, you will recieve too much feedback and the sensation of fighting the bars sounds like my old experience of actually hanging onto the bars ( a bit like a shopping trolley really) which pivot steers the bike from the front backwards, its wrong in any case. I suspect any head shake on a track is too much feedback from too tight a grip. I feel the front slap alittle when revving hard when the front lifts and searches for grip but I let it do it now and don't fight that. The damper on my bike is on a minimal setting too so it doesn't mask an impending disaster. Your experience of riding sounds very, very similar to mine. If you can make your first day next year with CSS do it, it could save you dozens of mis spent track days and road miles. Since the penny has dropped re the techniques it really has been an epithany of riding for me.