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Author Topic: the big debate - Afghanistan  (Read 1791 times)

Andy J

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the big debate - Afghanistan
« on: September 04, 2009, 11:50:18 PM »

Everyday I hear of  a couple of guys being killed out there and it's very depressing indeed  :crybaby2:

Of course it's easy to say that we shouldn't be there etc and I'm not fully aware of why we are there but can we afford to give up so many lives to this cause  :dontknow:

I raise a glass to all of our lads out there and wish them all a safe return.

Can someone explain to me what it's all about and why we seem to be a key nation providing soldiers to various volitile areas around the world when we are such a small nation now  :dontknow:  perhaps I don't see the full picture and there are other nations performing similar to keep peace in the world too , which of course is absolutely critical for all of our futures

A difficult subject i know and possibly a topic to delete when it runs out of control and emotions run high but I'm tired and saddenned to hear of deaths every day for this 'cause'

Will it ever end ?
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Andy J

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Re: the big debate - Afghanistan
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2009, 11:55:07 PM »

just found these facts too,they read of  increased losses this yesr to last  :-(

In UK, 58% believe the war is not winnable, 31% disagree. ComRes/Independent. July 09

In US, 42% think America is winning the war, 36% think it is losing. ABC News/Washington Post. Aug 09

54 British troops killed in 2009 so far, compared with 47 in 2008

172 US troops killed in 2009 so far, compared with 155 in 2008
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roy

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Re: the big debate - Afghanistan
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2009, 12:50:47 AM »

bring them home .  let them petrol our streets and (kick) i mean deal with the scum we got over here fucking up our home
I'm shore our women and kids and i for that mater would fill a dam site safer with them walking our streets then the plods that never turn up  :dontknow:  then if our country is under threat from some other tosser our boy's are where we need them ?
just think what would happen if right now some twat decided to invade our country and most of army's are out there  :!:
« Last Edit: September 05, 2009, 12:57:27 AM by roy »
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roy

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Re: the big debate - Afghanistan
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2009, 12:56:04 AM »

England, my England   
 
 Goodbye to my England, So long my old friend
Your days are numbered, being brought to an end
To be Scottish, Irish or Welsh that's fine
But don't say you're English, that's way out of line.
 
The French and the Germans may call themselves such
So may Norwegians, the Swedes and the Dutch
You can say you are Russian or maybe a Dane
But don't say you're English ever again.
 
At Broadcasting House the word is taboo
In Brussels it's scrapped, in Parliament too
Even schools are affected. Staff do as they're told
They must not teach children about England of old.
         
Writers like Shakespeare, Milton and Shaw
The pupils don't learn about them anymore
How about Agincourt, Hastings , Arnhem or Mons ?
When England lost hosts of her very brave sons.
 
We are not Europeans, how can we be?
Europe is miles away, over the sea
We're the English from England, let's all be proud
Stand up and be counted - Shout it out loud!
 
 
Let's tell our Government and Brussels too
We're proud of our heritage and the Red, White and Blue
 Fly the flag of Saint George or the Union Jack
Let the world know - WE WANT OUR ENGLAND BACK !!!!
           
  [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]

 
 
 
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Markyboyzx6r

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Re: the big debate - Afghanistan
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2009, 12:59:39 AM »

I defer to the wiser voices than my own on the Army Rumour Service website.

Basically, from what they say, we're going to lose in 'Stan. There isn't the political will to go 'all out'.

Our poor lads over there. Every day in the news we lose another to a roadside bomb.

...and for what? To make our streets safer? It's a crock... and it will all be worthless in the end.

Is Afganistan going to become a stable, unified, democratic state? I mean seriously???

Course not. Lets wrap it and get the lads home. If people think we can do something of value long term out there then fair play - but to me we have absolutely bollocks-all objectives that can be realistically achieved.

It's not Northern Ireland. It's a sh*thouse of a country, always has been and always will be. Our troops deserve better than this, f### sake - they haven't even been given decent kit or enough helicopters.

Brown's speech today made my blood boil. I wonder how many bereived families that devious arsehole has actually visited?

Sorry about the bad language folks.

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angus zx10r

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Re: the big debate - Afghanistan
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2009, 01:40:06 AM »

As always it's the politicians that don't want to lose face and back down, utmost respect to the soldiers though they don't get enough credit for putting there lives on the line they got a lot more balls than me...

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davemfox

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Re: the big debate - Afghanistan
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2009, 05:47:01 AM »

As Andy says this will get hot and quite rightly so. Just to throw something else in there, I've got mates out there who are not in the military but in the 'private' security side of it, and you do not often hear of these casualties; most of them are ex-Brit army too...

Dave
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harryt

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Re: the big debate - Afghanistan
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2009, 07:26:44 AM »

russia killed over a million afghans and still lost........we should get out now, but i also think the taliban would take charge again and they are the absolute pits' :icon_scratch:
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fido

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Re: the big debate - Afghanistan
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2009, 07:37:02 AM »

Cant see it ever ending.

 Fanatics like the Taliban will always be there and be active no matter what is done to try and stop them.

Should pull out and save the loss of any more of our soldiers
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davemfox

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Re: the big debate - Afghanistan
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2009, 09:35:37 AM »

russia killed over a million afghans and still lost........we should get out now, but i also think the taliban would take charge again and they are the absolute pits' :icon_scratch:

If you go a bit further back in history we were also there and didn't win either

Dave
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roy

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Re: the big debate - Afghanistan
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2009, 10:49:33 AM »

 :iamwithstupid: :iamwithstupid: :iamwithstupid: :iamwithstupid:
im with psg on that............ flatten it  may be the only chance they ever get to test Theo's expensive weapons we all keep fucking paying for .  >:( well lets fucking use them .  job done .....boy's home all happy

 Take that fat prick brown and all the other tossers out there first and let them watch and see what they have done then nuke them two .....all done .  our boy's are home ' now let them deal with the scum filling our streets .
                                                       

                                              :icon_salut:    and all live happy ever after   :icon_salut:
« Last Edit: September 05, 2009, 10:54:54 AM by roy »
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big_gaz

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Re: the big debate - Afghanistan
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2009, 05:00:00 PM »

'Tis a bit of a difficult one TBH, maybe I should try and answer a few queries that keep coming up, the only knowledge I can impart is the stuff I've learned having actually been out there myself, (and as it seems am on my way back out there next year again as well!)

1. The kit we use, fellas, our kit that is issued is second to none, there is  plenty of it and every man/woman that now goes out there, gets the nec kit to do the job.  Most of the stories in the tabloids are sensationalising what used to happen.  Some areas that we are working in, mostly part of the G4/supply areas, have kit supplied to them by the lorry load it's just a matter of getting it out to the lads working in the forward operating bases (FOBS).  Lack of helos can be a problem here.

2.  Our radios, which lets face it are a crucial assett are in short supply, so are the batteries which are critical to operate them.  Demand outstrips supply massively, this is up to the procurement dept within the MOD to sort this out, but, as ever, political infighting and the fact that new up dates are 'supposedly coming out' in the near future doesn't help supply it to the blokes that are out there.

3.  Helicoptors have been in short supply, to the extent that at times hundreds of tons of supplies are sat waiting to be dropped off to the FOBS.  These supplies can be left waiting for weeks until the situation becomes critical in the FOB, only then do the nec loads get dropped off.  UK plc were having to hire Russian helicoptors to do a lot of the flying simply because there weren't enough heavy lift helos from the UK out there.  This situation is being sorted with the use of the Merlin helos which have just come back from Iraq.  However, you will never have enough, they are a pized and very much over used asset.

4.  The casualty rate out there is truly alarming, we only hear about the men that are killed, the amount of men being crippled  and maimed by the roadside bombs is huge, every time a helo flew overhead, if it came past acertain  point over the ground then we knew it was full of casualties.  Always depressing.  Hospital facilities are now second to none.  A purpose built facility was opened last year and it treats not just British soldiers, but Afghan civvies as well.  It has been know to treat enemy combatants as well, however, once all the beds are full then operations have to stop, that doesn't happen so much now.

5.  Our fighting  out there is at the request of the Afghan govenrment, we are not fighting the Afghans, but a well armed, very well trained bunch of insurgents.  They come from all Muslims states, and as I'm sure you know, the UK Muslim pop has sent their own fighters to support the insurgents, that pisses us all  off the guys and gals over there.  When 45 Cdo were clearing Taleban compounds, they could here Arabic being spoken in a distinct Brummie accent.  Make your own minds up!!

6.  There are a lot of other nations out there as well, the Canadians, Danes, Yanks have all lost significant numbers, notably the French and Germans are in areas where the fighting is very limited, have lost very few if any and are therefore are not pulling their weight.

7.  The trg and manning of the Afghan army is well under way, and in some areas, these guys lead the operations against the Taliban with UK and US support.


These are a few of my own thoughts, ones that I know are true, having been out there and seen it/done it.  I hope by the time I get back out there again things will have changed for the better, but I'm certainly not going to hold my breath for it
« Last Edit: September 07, 2009, 05:07:38 PM by big_gaz »
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big_gaz

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Re: the big debate - Afghanistan
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2009, 05:07:02 PM »


oops
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roy

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Re: the big debate - Afghanistan
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2009, 05:27:24 PM »

just keep your head down mate and make shore you come home in one peace  :icon_thumright: 

do you think we should be out there ?             should they get all you boys home?        and did you join up to fight for another country?


cheers roy   :icon_salut: :icon_salut: :icon_salut: :icon_salut: :icon_salut: :icon_salut: :icon_salut: :icon_salut: :icon_salut: :icon_salut: :icon_salut: :icon_salut:
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davemfox

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Re: the big debate - Afghanistan
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2009, 06:18:29 PM »


6.  There are a lot of other nations out there as well, the Canadians, Danes, Yanks have all lost significant numbers, notably the French and Germans are in areas where the fighting is very limited, have lost very few if any and are therefore are not pulling their weight.


No surprises there then  [wall]

Dave
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